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驻英大使激辩BBC主播:中国不是病毒制造者!

发布日期:2020-05-05    点击:


双语君 中国日报双语新闻 前天

4月28日,驻英国大使刘晓明接受英国广播公司(BBC)《尖锐对话》栏目(HARDtalk)资深主持人斯蒂芬·萨克(Stephen Sackur)在线专访,就中国抗击新冠肺炎疫情阐明立场,澄清事实,激浊扬清。


专访实录如下:


主持人:刘晓明大使,欢迎来到《尖锐对话》。
Sackur: Ambassador Liu Xiaoming, welcome to Hardtalk.

刘大使:谢谢!很高兴再次见到你。
Ambassador: Thank you. Good to be with you again.

主持人:很高兴你能在这艰难时期接受我们的采访。先问一个简单、直接的问题: 你是否同意新冠肺炎病毒源自中国?
Sackur: We are delighted to have you on our program in this difficult time. Let me start actually with a very simple direct question: Do you accept that Covid-19 has its origins in China?

刘大使:病毒最早发现于武汉并不等于起源于武汉。根据多方信息,包括BBC的报道, 病毒可能源自任何地方,甚至在航空母舰或潜艇中可以找到,在一些与中国很少联系的国家中也可以找到,在从未去过中国的人群中可以找到。所以我们不能说它源自中国。
Ambassador: It was first discovered in Wuhan, but I can't say it's originated from Wuhan. According to many reports including the BBC, it can be anywhere. It can be found on aircraft carriers. It can even be found in the submarine. It is found in some countries which have very little connection with China and also can be found in groups of people who have never been to China. So we cannot say it's originated from China.

主持人:这个回答让我有些困惑。显然这是一种全新病毒,它起源于某个地方。根据免疫学家和病毒学家的说法,病毒由动物传播给人类。毫无疑问,第一起病例发生在中国。你刚才说,病毒传播到了世界各地,一些从未到过中国的人也被感染,显然因为病毒已引发全球大流行病,但至关重要的问题是,它最初来自何处?
Sackur: I'm a little confused by that answer. Clearly, it is a new virus. It originated somewhere. It seems, according to all of the immunologists and virologists, they crossed from animals to humans. And there was a first case and then it spread. There is no doubt that the first case was in China. I’m wondering why you are telling me that it spread all over the world and people who caught it had never been to China. That is clear because it's become a pandemic. But the question that matters so much is: Where did it start?

刘大使:我认为这个问题应交由科学家来解答。据我了解, 中国的首起病例是由张继先医生于2019年12月27日向中国地方卫生主管部门报告的。 我还看到报道,称 中国以外有些病例甚至远早于此。 昨天英国报纸上的报道称,英国的科学家、医学专家在去年早些时候就曾警告政府,可能存在一种未知病毒。因此,我只能说中国第一例报告的病例于2019年12月27日发生在武汉。

Ambassador: I think this question is still up for scientists to decide. I read the report that the first case in China was reported on the 27th December by Dr. Zhang Jixian to Chinese local health authorities. But I also read reports that some of the cases were found to be much earlier than that. We read even the report by your newspapers yesterday that your scientists, medical advisers, even warned your government that there might be a virus unknown to us, much earlier, last year. So all I can say is that the first reported case in China was on the 27th of December in Wuhan.


主持人:我认为不容置疑的是,专家们确信在武汉及其周边地区发现了首例确诊病例。你是否也认为我们必须搞清楚疫情暴发初期到底发生了什么,以及哪些地方做得不对、哪些步骤走错了,才导致病毒演变成全球大流行?

Sackur: I think there's no doubt experts believe the origin of the first outbreak, first examples of this Covid-19 virus to be found in human beings, came from Wuhan and the surrounding area in China. I just wonder whether you accept that it is very important that we understand exactly what happened at the beginning of this outbreak, that we understand frankly what mistakes and missteps were made, which allowed the first outbreak to become a global pandemic.


刘大使:我认为这仍待商榷,我们得承认有不同看法。病毒是在中国武汉首次发现的,但不能说它起源于武汉。我认为这个问题应当留给科学家。
Ambassador: I think it is still debatable. I think we have to agree to disagree. I think it was first discovered in Wuhan, China, but I can't say it originated from Wuhan, because I would leave it to the scientists.

主持人:刘大使,病毒确实首先在武汉出现人传人,并集中暴发。我想问的是,难道对已发生的事情进行深入独立调查、了解事实真相不重要吗?我们可以利用这些信息避免悲剧再次发生。
Sackur: The point, Ambassador, surely is that the first mass outbreak where human beings transmitted the disease from one to another was undoubtedly in Wuhan, in China. And my point to you is: Is it not very important that what happened is deeply, independently investigated that we understand what happened, so we can use that information to prevent it from happening again?

刘大使:让我给你介绍一下中国抗疫时间表。张继先医生首先于2019年12月27日上报了不明原因肺炎病例。中国卫生部门和疾控中心在四天后,也就是12月31日以最短的时间通知了世界卫生组织并与其他国家共享信息。中国还第一时间同世卫组织分享病原体,在第一时间同世卫组织和其他国家分享病毒基因序列。
Ambassador: Let me tell you the timeline of China's fight against this virus. It was first reported on the 27th of December by Dr. Zhang, and then Chinese health authorities and CDC notified the WHO four days later, on the 31st of December, in the shortest possible time, and then share this information with other countries. China also shared the discovery of the pathogen with the WHO in the shortest possible time, and also shared the information about the genetic sequence of the virus in the shortest possible time.

主持人:大使先生,让我打断一下,你忽视了非常重要的一点。12月30日,武汉医生李文亮在微信群里告诉他的医生同事,武汉出现了一种非常令人担忧的新疾病,建议他的同事们必须穿防护服,以避免被感染。几天后,他被公安局传唤并被迫供认散播虚假信息、严重干扰社会秩序。从那以后一直到一月份,中国政府一直在试图掩盖真相。
Sackur: Ambassador, let me just interrupt you on this question of timeline because you missed out one very important point. On December 30th, a doctor in Wuhan, Li Wenliang, used his chat group online to tell fellow doctors that there was a new and very worrying disease in Wuhan. He advised his colleagues that they must wear protective clothing to avoid this new infection. And just a couple of days later, he was summoned to the public security bureau. He was made to sign a letter in which he confessed to making false statements that had severely disturbed the social order. That was the beginning of an official cover-up, which continued through the month of January.

刘大使: 现在我明白为什么一些人要鼓吹进行所谓的独立调查了,其实就是试图罗织借口来批评中国掩盖真相。但事实是,李文亮医生不是“吹哨者”,如我刚才说的,张继先医生比李医生早三天向卫生部门报告,武汉市卫生部门随即向中央政府报告。四天后,也就是李医生发出微信信息后一天,中国政府与世卫组织及其他国家共享了这一信息。完全不存在所谓掩盖事实。

Ambassador: As I said earlier, now I understand why there's a so-called call for an independent investigation. They try to find an excuse for them to criticize China for cover-up. But the fact is that Li Wenliang was not the first one who discovered this virus. As I told you, it was Dr. Zhang Jixian, and she reported 3 days earlier than Li Wenliang to the health authorities. Then, the health authorities in Wuhan reported to the central government, and then four days later, that means one day after Li Wenliang spread the word, the Chinese authorities shared the information with the WHO and other countries. No cover-up at all.


主持人:大使先生,实际上中方共享的信息非常有限。根据《华盛顿邮报》和美联社获得的内部信息,中国国家卫生健康委员会主任马晓伟曾在2020年1月14日的内部会议中对形势做出了非常严峻的评估,他说复杂、集中案例表明病毒正在“人传人”。但是第二天,中国疾病预防控制中心对外称持续“人传人”的风险很低,疫情是可防可控的。因此,我再次认为,有充足的证据表明中国在好几个星期内没有说实话。
Sackur: With respect, Mr. Ambassador, the information that was shared was actually extremely limited, because, on January 14th, we now know this from leaks that have been given to the Washington Post and the Associated Press, we know that internally China's national health commission head, Mr. Ma Xiaowei, laid out a very grim assessment of what was happening. He said that the situation was severe. Complex, clustered cases suggest human to human transmission is happening, the memo said. The risk of transmission and spread is high, but in public, that was internal, but in public, the head of China's disease control emergency center, the very next day, said the risk of sustained human-to-human transmission is low, that it was preventable and controllable. So, I put it to you again, there is compelling evidence that China for weeks did not tell the truth.

刘大使:你都没有给我足够的时间回答问题,我还没有答完关于李文亮的问题。所谓的“掩盖事实”是不存在的。张医生通过正常渠道向卫生部门报告,但李文亮则在朋友圈传播相关信息。在任何国家,如果出现极其危险的未知病毒等情况,都可能引起恐慌。我认为警方传唤李医生,向他提出警告,要求他停止网上传播,这不能称为“隐瞒”。疫情已经通过正规渠道上报,这种情况下要尽量避免恐慌。目前,英国政府也在打击利用假消息制造恐慌以达到个人目的做法。有关李文亮医生的事已经有结论,中国中央政府接到报告后,即向武汉派出调查组,武汉市公安局决定撤销对李医生的训诫书。李医生被追认为烈士,被授予很高的荣誉。
Ambassador: You give me not enough time to answer your question. I haven't answered the question with regard to Li Wenliang. You talk about cover-up. That's not true. Dr. Zhang reported through a normal channel to health authorities, but Li spread this word among his friends. In any country when you have something like the virus which is dangerous to people's health when there is something unknown, there might be a panic. So I think the police authority summoned Li to warn him not to do it. You can't say this is a cover-up, since we reported through the normal channel. But on this, we need to make sure that there should be no panic. Even today, in the UK, I think your government is fighting misinformation. Some people try to use this to create panic for their own gain. I think Li’s case is closed. After it's reported to the central authorities, the government sent investigation team down to Wuhan and find out that Li did the right thing and the police reprimand has been revoked. And Li was made a martyr and given the highest honor for his contribution.

主持人:李医生去世的时候的确被中国人民视为英雄。
Sackur: Dr. Li was indeed regarded by the Chinese people as a hero when he died.

刘大使: 不仅是中国人民,中国政府也是一样,不能区别开来。
Ambassador: Not only by the Chinese people, but also regarded by the Chinese government. You cannot separate.

主持人:我认为中国人民很清楚,政府对他们和世界其它国家并不坦率。1月14日,中国卫健委的内部文件称存在人传人、聚集性感染的证据,形势严峻复杂,并要求有关内容不公开,不上网。对此你如何解释?
Sackur: With respect, I think the people of China are very aware, and I come back to it, that the Chinese government wasn't straight with them, nor with the outside world. Just tell me, if you can one more time, why on January 14 the national health commission document -- that was an internal document -- was labeled not to be spread on the internet, not to be publicly disclosed, in which they said that there was evidence of human-to-human transmission, clustered cases, severe and complex problem?



刘大使: 我想你们的所有信息都来自《华盛顿邮报》,你们过于依赖美国媒体。我衷心希望你们能采纳世卫组织的信息。我们与世卫组织分享了所有信息。 我看了你对世卫组织新冠特使纳巴罗 (David Nabarro) 博士的专访,中国始终坚持公开、透明、第一时间与世卫组织分享信息。 一方面在中国国内,我们必须保持高度警惕,采取最严格的防控措施,当时对这个病毒并不十分了解。另一方面我们与世卫组织和其他国家分享了信息和我们对病毒的认知。
Ambassador: I think all your information is coming from Washington Post. I think you depend too much on American media. I really hope you will depend on the WHO for information. We share all the information with the WHO. I saw your interview with Mr. David Nabarro, and I think China has been straightforward, transparent, and swift in terms of sharing information with the WHO. Of course, inside China, we have to take cautious measures. We have to take strict measures to fight this virus. It is still unknown then. So people did not know what will happen, what this virus was about. But on the one hand, we share our knowledge, our understanding, with the WHO, with the other countries.


主持人:刘大使你是一位资深外交官,应该了解目前世界上很多人并不相信中国的故事版本。几个小时前,特朗普称对中国的立场并不满意,说中国完全可以把疫情控制在源头,他还说美国正在进行全面调查。美国副总统彭斯也列出一系列理由证明,中国没有对世界说实话,应对疫情在全世界蔓延并造成大规模死亡和经济损失负有责任,中国现在面临巨大的问题。
Sackur: But Ambassador, with all respect, your problem is -- you're a very senior diplomat and you know this is a problem -- that many people around the world simply don't believe the Chinese version of events. Donald Trump, only a few hours ago, said that he is not happy at all with China's stance. They could have stopped the virus at the source, he said, we are undertaking a thorough investigation. And Vice President Mike Pence has listed a whole host of reasons why the United States believes that China was not straight with the world and is therefore culpable for the fact this pandemic is now causing so much death and so much economic damage right around the world. You have, as China, a massive problem now.

刘大使:我不同意这种说法。这是一些西方国家的说法。疫情发生后,中国第一时间与世卫组织和其它国家通力合作,我们派出技术援助和医疗专家组,并向150多个国家提供医疗物资援助,受到这些国家的高度评价。我认为,美国不能代表全世界,即使不少西方国家,包括英国、法国、德国,也对中国表示赞赏。 你引用了特朗普总统的表态,我也想引用几句他有关中国的表态。1月24日,在中国通报疫情大约1个月之后,特朗普总统说,“美国高度赞赏中国的努力和透明度”。6天之后,他表示“正在与中国紧密合作”。二月初,他又表示“习近平主席工作出色、疫情处理得很好”。
Ambassador: I don't think so. When you say that China has a massive problem, I think you're talking more about the Western world. Since the outbreak, China has had a very strong cooperation with the WHO and with many other countries. We sent technical assistance and experts to and provide medical supplies for more than 150 countries. All of them spoke highly of Chinese efforts. So I can't say the United States represents the world. And even in the Western world, we've been receiving appreciation from the countries like United Kingdom, from France, from Germany. You quote President Trump. Let me also quote his comments about China. On the 24th of January, that was almost one month after we discovered this virus. He said, United States greatly appreciates China's efforts and transparency. Six days later and he said, they are working very hard, and we are working very closely with China. In early February, he said, President Xi is doing a great job, he handles it well.

主持人:自一月底以来,情况发生了很多变化。中国说,我们做了很多好事,向世界各国提供了医疗物资援助,但在外界眼里则是中国最近几周正在全世界掀起一场假消息和宣传攻势。你提到中国与法国的关系良好,但法国政府刚召见了中国驻法大使,指责中国驻法使馆散布假消息,使馆网站称法国老人在养老院里被抛弃,承受痛苦,孤独地死去。中国外交部官员在社交媒体上散布“阴谋论”,称美国军人将病毒偷带到中国。为什么中国要宣传这样的假消息?
Sackur: Things have changed a great deal since the end of January. You say, look at what we've done to deliver medical assistance and equipment around the world. What many people see is China running a campaign of disinformation and propaganda around the world in recent weeks. You say, we have a great relationship with France. The French just called in your counterpart, the Chinese Ambassador in France, accusing him of spreading disinformation because the Embassy website in Paris is claiming that old people in care homes in France are being abandoned to suffer and die alone. That’s a colleague of yours. Another colleague of yours in the Foreign Ministry use social media to promote the conspiracy theory that the US military has smuggled coronavirus into China. Why is your country running this disinformation campaign?

刘大使: 我认为你选错了目标。不是中国散布假消息,如果将中国领导人、中国外交官和中国大使的表态与美国领导人、美国外交官和美国大使做一个比较,你就会发现谁在散布假消息。
Ambassador: I think you've picked the wrong target. It’s not China who started this campaign of disinformation. If you could compare China's statements and comments by Chinese leaders, Chinese diplomats, Chinese Ambassadors, with their American counterpart, you will know who is spreading disinformation.

主持人:你同意赵立坚关于“美国军人将新冠病毒偷带到中国”的说法吗?你相信吗?
Sackur: Do you agree with Zhao Lijian, the Foreign Ministry Spokesman who did put up the link suggesting that the US military has smuggled coronavirus into China? Is that something that you also believe?

刘大使:赵是转推一些媒体的报道。 我不明白你为什么抓住中国某个个人的言论,却对美国国家领导人、高级官员,特别是美国最高级别外交官、国务卿发布的假消息视而不见?只要他谈到中国,就没有好话;中国在抗疫斗争中向美国伸出援手,却成了恶人。我实在不能理解。

Ambassador: I think what you're saying is that Mr. Zhao retweeted some media report. I do not know why you focus on some comments by individuals in China but miss the disinformation by senior officials, even the national leaders, of the United States who started this campaign of disinformation, especially by the top diplomat, the secretary of state? When it comes to China, there's not any good word about China. And China is really regarded as an evil, not as a country which has been lending a helping hand to America in the fight against this virus. I do not quite understand.


主持人:你认为,目前由于疫情导致的各种指责给中美带来外交危机有多严重?
Sackur: In your view, Ambassador, how deep is the crisis with the United States right now, that has been sparked by all of the accusations that have arisen from the coronavirus? How deep is the diplomatic crisis?

刘大使:中方当然希望与美国保持良好关系。我曾两次常驻美国,我始终相信中美和则两利、斗则俱伤,我们有充分的理由与美方保持良好关系,但这应该建立在相互信任、合作而不对抗的基础上,双方需要相向而行。疫情发生以来,习近平主席和特朗普总统保持密切沟通,通了两次电话,讨论国际抗疫合作。 我想强调的是,中国不是美国的敌人,美国的敌人是新冠病毒,美国应该找对目标

Ambassador: We certainly want to have good relations with the United States. I've been posted twice in Washington, DC. I always believe that China and the United States will gain from cooperation and lose from confrontation. And we have every reason to have a good relationship with the United States. But it has to be based on mutual trust, coordination and non-confrontation. But you need two to tango. Since the outbreak, President Xi and President Trump have kept very close contact. They had two telephone conversations and compared notes, just as President Xi had two telephone conversations with Prime Minister Johnson. We want to build an international response to this virus. I just want to let Americans know that China is not an enemy of the United States. It's the virus that is the enemy of the United States. They need to find the right target.


主持人:你发出了非常重要的信息。那么针对美国以及澳大利亚、英国等许多国家提出的、中方应永久而不是临时关闭从事野生动物交易的“湿货市场”的要求,中方是否将作出一些积极姿态,从而改善与这些国家的关系?

Sackur: It’s a very important message you’re sending. Maybe China could consider some gestures that would improve relations with not just the United States but many other countries, including Australia and the UK who’ve made the same point to your government. One, will you now categorically guarantee to close down the so-called “wet markets”, that there will no longer be the sale of these live wild animals in the food markets that are known as the “wet markets”? Is that now something that has been banned, not just short term, but absolutely banned forever in China?


刘大使:首先,我不同意你关于中国与许多国家关系出现问题的说法,中国的朋友多,对手少,敌人更少。正如我所说,少数西方国家不能代表整个世界。中国拥有良好的对外关系,正在积极推动国际抗疫合作。正如习近平主席所说,团结合作是国际社会战胜疫情最有力武器。
Ambassador: First, on your first point about “many countries”, I cannot agree with you that China has a problem with many countries. I would say we have more friends than opponents or enemies. A few Western countries do not represent the world. I think China enjoys good relationships. And I think we are building an international response. As President Xi said, solidarity and cooperation are the most powerful weapons to fight the pandemic. I will come back to the “wet market”.

主持人:我们时间不多了,刘大使,你能不能就“湿货市场”问题给出具体明确的回答?市场关了还是没关?
Sackur: Ambassador, we are short of time. I just need a specific answer on the “wet markets”. Are they right now closed for good, yes or no?

刘大使:事实上,在中国根本不存在所谓的“湿货市场”,这个说法对很多中国人都很陌生,是西方、外来的说法。人们常说的是农贸市场和活禽海鲜市场,主要销售新鲜的蔬菜、海鲜等农副产品,也有非常少数市场销售活禽。你所谈到的应该是非法销售野生动物的市场,已经被彻底禁止。中国全国人大已经通过决定,全面禁止非法野生动物交易。
Ambassador: There's no such a thing as “wet market”. This is a Western, a foreign, notion to many Chinese. We do have fresh food markets where fresh vegetables, fresh seafood, fish, are sold, and some live poultry. I think you are talking about the so-called illegal market for selling wildlife. That has been totally banned. The law has been passed and it will be banned permanently. It’s illegal…

主持人:这是否意味着中国政府已经意识到这些野生动物市场的危险性,即它们确实造成病毒从动物传给人类?

Sackur: That is therefore a recognition -- I just want to be clear -- a recognition on your government’s part that the dangers of those markets, where live wild animals were sold alongside other foodstuffs, they were dangers that did cause the spread coronavirus from animals to humans.


刘大使:我们终于达成了一项一致。请注意,这里所说的是非法野生动物市场已完全被禁止,在中国猎捕、交易、食用野生动物都是非法的。
Ambassdor: I agree with that. Finally, we have a few points to agree on. I'm very pleased with that. That's why this market, we're talking about illegal wildlife market, is totally banned. It's illegal to hunt, to trade, to eat wild animals.

主持人:如果中方能在新冠肺炎病毒蔓延之前早点下达禁令,就不会给世界造成这么大的伤害。 中方是否将为此道歉?

Sackur: So people watching this will only wish that you had made that ban real before coronavirus spread and cause such terrible damage around the world. Are you in any way prepared to say sorry for what has happened?


刘大使:你又回到了采访开始时的问题。我要说,不能因为疫情在中国发现就指责中国,这是错误的。中国发现了疫情,在很多与中国毫无联系的地方也发现了疫情。不能因为中方暴发疫情就指责中国,要看到中国竭尽所能努力抗疫。 中国是病毒受害者,中国不是病毒制造者,中国也不是病毒源头。对于这一点,必须要明确。
Ambassador: So you come to your first point again. You can't blame China for coronavirus. That's the problem of this argument. It was found in China. It was found in many other places that have no connection with China at all. So you can't point your fingers at China for the outbreak, and we have done our best. China is a victim of the coronavirus, but China is not a source of this problem. China is not the producer of this epidemic, and that is something we have to come clean about.

主持人:但一些英国政界要员称中国应为疫情负责,比如,议会下议院外委会主席表示,中国政府实行的是前苏联式、有害的体制,这种体制损害中国人民的健康和福祉,背叛了中国人民,也背叛了世界。他们呼吁英国、美国和其他一些国家切断与中国的紧密经济联系。在英国,这一问题的核心是,华为不应被继续允许参与英5G网络建设。作为中国驻英国大使,你是否担心对华经济脱钩?
Sackur: China is seen, for example, by leading politicians in this country, like the Chairman of the Parliamentary Foreign Affairs Select Committee, as very much the cause. He’s talked about a soviet style system, a toxic system, inside your government, inside your regime, which he says has been responsible not just for betraying the Chinese people and their health or wellbeing, but betraying the wider world as well. And there are now calls in the United Kingdom, and also calls in the United States and other countries, for a disengagement from close economic ties with China. In Britain, it’s of course centered on Huawei, your telephones giant’s activities in the 5G sector. People say that should no longer be tolerated in the United Kingdom. As the Ambassador in the UK, are you worried that there is going to be now an economic disengagement?

刘大使:既担心,也不担心。你所谈到的那位政界要员,他的观点不能代表英国政府的官方立场。我相信,在约翰逊首相领导下,英国政府仍致力于发展强劲的中英关系。在与习主席的两次通电话中,约翰逊首相重申将致力于推进中英关系“黄金时代”。疫情期间,中英除了紧密沟通之外,还积极开展合作。我出任中国驻英国大使10年了,从未见到两国领导人和高层保持如此密切的联系,除了习近平主席与约翰逊首相两次通话外,中央外事工作委员会办公室主任杨洁篪、国务委员兼外长王毅同英国首相国家安全事务顾问塞德维尔、外交大臣拉布保持密切沟通,我也与外交大臣拉布,卫生大臣汉考克,商业、能源和产业战略大臣夏尔马保持密切接触,中英关系十分强劲。至于你提到有人将中国比作前苏联,这完全是“冷战”思维。 我们已经生活在二十一世纪第三个十年,而这些人还停留在过去“冷战”时期。 中国不是前苏联。中英之间的共同利益远大于分歧,我对中英关系充满信心。

Ambassador: Yes and no. I think you talk about this person as a very senior politician, but I don't think this view represents the official position of the UK government. I think the UK government under Prime Minister Johnson is still committed to a stronger partnership with China. In his two telephone conversations with President Xi, he reaffirmed UK’s commitment to building a Golden Era with China. And we do have very good cooperation with the UK side throughout this outbreak, in addition to intensive communication. I've been here for 10 years as a Chinese Ambassador. I have never seen that our top leaders have such an intensive communications between them. And also at the ministerial level, we have our State Councilor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi having telephone conversation with Secretary Raab, and Yang Jiechi, Director of the Office of the Central Commission for Foreign Affairs, having close contact with the Sir Mark Sedwill. Here in London, I have very close contact with the government secretaries, including Secretaries Mat Hancock and Alok Sharma, and Foreign Secretary Raab. We have a very strong, robust relationship. And you quote those people using Soviet example. I think this is a totally Cold War mentality. We are living in the third decade of the 21st century, but those people still live in the old days when they were fighting the cold war. China is not former Soviet Union. I think China and the UK are united by common interests rather than divided by our differences. So I'm very confident about this relationship.


主持人:刘大使,我们即将结束采访。我再次对你在艰难时期做客《尖锐对话》表示感谢。
Sackur: All right, Ambassador, we have to end there. But I do thank you very much indeed for joining me on Hardtalk at this difficult time. Liu Xiaoming, thank you very much indeed.

刘大使:不必客气。
Ambassador: My pleasure.



来源:中国驻英大使馆 央视新闻

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/LQmPLauxYVzyHAuUA1qeag


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